EMBASSY — earnings call
The transcript as filed. Every paragraph is addressable: its link names the page and the position it sits at in the call.
Prepared remarks
Embassy REIT
Q3 FY2023 Earnings Call Transcript
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Q3 FY2023 Earnings Call
January 25, 2023
Q3 FY2023 Earnings Call Transcript
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CORPORATE PARTICIPANTS
Vikaash Khdloya – Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
Abhishek S Agrawal – Interim Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
Ritwik Bhattacharjee – Chief Investment Officer (CIO)
Abhishek Agarwal – Head of Investor Relations
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MANAGEMENT DISCUSSION SECTION
Operator: Good evening everyone.
A very warm welcome to all for Embassy REIT’s third quarter FY2023
Earnings Conference Call.
Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode.
Our speakers will address
Questions and answers
Embassy REIT
your questions at the end of the presentation during the question-and-answer session.
As a reminder, this
conference call is being recorded.
I would now like to introduce your host for today’s conference – Mr.
Abhishek Agarwal, Head of Investor
Relations for Embassy REIT.
Sir, you may begin.
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Abhishek Agarwal
Head of Investor Relations
Thank you, operator.
Welcome to the Q3 FY2023 Earnings call for Embassy REIT.
Embassy REIT released its financial results for the quarter and nine month period ended December 31,
2022 a short while back.
As is our standard practice, we have placed our financial statements, earnings
presentation discussing our performance, and a supplemental financial and operating databook in the
Investors section of our website at www.embassyofficeparks.com.
As always, we would like to inform you that management may make certain comments on this call that one
could deem forward-looking statements.
Please be advised that the REIT’s actual results may differ from
these statements.
Embassy REIT does not guarantee these statements or results and is not obliged to
update them at any time.
Specifically, the financial guidance and any proforma information that we will
provide on this call are management estimates, based on certain assumptions and have not been
subjected to any audit, review, or examination procedures.
You are cautioned not to place undue reliance
on such guidance and information and there can be no assurance that we will be able to achieve the same.
Joining me today are Vikaash Khdloya, the CEO, Abhishek S Agrawal, the Interim CFO and Ritwik
Bhattacharjee, the CIO.
Vikaash will start off with business and industry overview followed by Ritwik and
We will then open the floor to questions.
Over to you, Vikaash.
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Vikaash Khdloya
Good evening and thank you for joining us today to review our Q3 results.
We are pleased to report another robust quarter of business performance and a continued positive outlook
for India office market.
We signed a total of 1 msf leases, improved our same-store occupancy to 88%,
generated healthy 13% NOI growth, announced 15th consecutive quarter of 100% distributions and remain
on-track with our full year guidance.
Additionally, we unlocked further growth in Bangalore at our Embassy
TechVillage (‘ETV’) property by launching a new 410k sf office block at a highly accretive 24% yield.
active development pipeline now totals 6.6 msf and sets us up to deliver an incremental ₹8 billion annual
NOI upon stabilization at an attractive 24% yield.
So, another quarter of resilient business activity and a
clear pathway towards accelerating growth, which we are well-placed to finance given our low 27%
leverage, competitive debt costs and AAA/Stable rated fortress balance sheet.
Even amidst a highly volatile global macro environment, India continues to attract more and more global
companies to set up and grow their offshore captive centers.
Morgan Stanley, in its recently published
report ‘Why This is India’s Decade’, has highlighted offshoring as one of the key megatrends which will
continue to fuel India’s growth.
The dual drivers for this phenomenon are structural, namely India’s
abundant STEM talent and the cost efficiency offered by India’s gateway cities, relative to more expensive
and less scalable markets globally.
As we have highlighted previously, these global captives continue to
pursue premium-quality wellness-focused properties, to attract and retain talent and to grow their presence
Our YTD leasing performance, our highly accretive active developments and our resilient
distributions demonstrate our continued strong conviction in the long-term growth opportunity offered by
Let me now update you on our leasing performance
During Q3, we leased a total of 1 msf across 19 deals and added 7 new occupiers across healthcare,
financial services and tech firms.
We achieved robust new leasing of 0.5 msf at impressive 5% premium to
Additionally, we renewed another 0.5 msf leases at 21% renewal spreads, including 0.4 msf
of early renewals by four large multinationals.
We also secured 13% rent escalations on 2.1 msf which
further contributes to our NOI growth.
Physical attendance in our properties also continued its upward
growth trajectory and stood at around 46% last week, a 30% uptick compared to the last quarter, majorly
led by banks and global captives.
Bangalore continues to drive demand, with the occupancy of Embassy Manyata now touching 90% and a
strong deal pipeline for both Embassy Manyata and ETV, reflecting continued strong demand from global
Further, Pune witnessed early signs of demand pick-up with 152k sf new leases in Q3, including
by an American healthcare major.
With this, our Q3 occupancy stood at 86% and our same-store
occupancy rebounded to 88%.
Our active deal pipeline of 850k sf sets us on the path to pre-Covid
occupancy levels of 90s in the next few quarters.
Our strategy of attracting higher growth occupiers has helped us diversify occupier concentration, deliver
above market rents and more importantly, embed growth into our portfolio.
For instance, in the last 18
months, we added an impressive 52 new occupiers across sectors such as cloud infrastructure,
cybersecurity, fintech, healthcare tech and renewables.
These deals were across 1.4 msf and at 4%
premium to market rents.
Notably, based on our on-ground discussions, around half of these occupiers are
already looking to grow their India footprint, which will further aid our new leasing.
On the SEZ front, the industry is currently awaiting further regulatory clarity around the proposed DESH
Excluding our 3.3 msf SEZ vacancy, our Q3 same-store occupancy would be at even higher levels of
An enabling regulatory framework around denotification and flexibility of usage of existing
SEZs will boost demand for such spaces and further drive leasing traction.
Next, an update on our ESG program
ESG remains a core pillar of our strategy and our sustainability-focused buildings continue to receive
recognition from globally renowned organizations.
Our operational portfolio was awarded 9 Swords of
Embassy REIT
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Honor by the British Safety Council, acknowledging the best-in-class safety and wellness aspects of our
In addition, we are proud to report that we have been recognized as the world’s largest USGBC
LEED Platinum-certified office portfolio.
We continue to progress on our 3-year ESG roadmap, supported by our ₹3 billion committed investments.
We remain focused on reducing our carbon footprint through green initiatives such as our 20 MW solar
rooftop project and we are progressing well on our ‘75/25 Renewable Program’, i.e. our commitment to
achieve 75% renewable energy usage across our properties by FY2025.
Our team recently launched a
dedicated microsite to provide details on our ESG program and we encourage you to visit the same.
Finally, moving to the outlook for Indian office
2022 was a resurgent year for India office with total absorption of around 55 msf, closer to pre-pandemic
While globally there may be an increased caution around office demand, the long-term fundamentals
of India office remain strong as ever.
Apart from banks and financial services captives which continue to
drive demand, many global retailers, insurers and healthcare majors are now setting up their India offices.
Increased focus on costs and efficiencies by global corporates is likely to further accelerate this India
offshoring trend, disproportionately to the benefit of institutional landlords like us.
On the other hand, the supply of quality office stock continues to consolidate towards fewer and larger
institutional quality landlords who are well-funded to invest in sustainable growth.
A combination of cost
inflation and rising interest rates is likely to increase the replacement value of properties, thereby impacting
supply and driving rent growth in the medium-term.
As you may recall, we had given a 5 msf total leasing guidance for FY2023, which was meaningfully above
our pre-pandemic 5-year average of 3.3 msf.
We are happy to report that year-to-date, we have already
leased 4.4 msf, achieving around 90% of our annual guidance, despite Q3 traditionally being a seasonally
Notably, we are tracking ahead on both our fresh leasing and pre-leasing guidance and our
active deal pipeline remains robust, which will further accelerate our NOI growth.
Let me now handover to Ritwik to expand further on our growth initiatives.
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Ritwik Bhattacharjee
Chief Investment Officer (CIO)
Thanks Vikaash.
Hello everyone.
Our key growth initiatives for Q3 include:
We delivered a new 0.9 msf office block at Embassy TechZone, Pune and launched an additional 410k
sf new office building at ETV, Bangalore;
We accelerated development of our 6.6 msf active growth pipeline, with approximately 90%
concentrated in Bangalore, India’s best performing office market; and
We continue working on the non-binding offers to acquire the 7.1 msf of Sponsor assets in Chennai
First, an update on our development portfolio
At Embassy Manyata, we are developing 3.5 msf across five blocks.
The 1 msf M3 Block A is nearing
completion and we expect to receive the occupancy certificate in Q4.
We are seeing good leasing traction
with 3 deals in active discussions.
Further, there has been encouraging progress on obtaining the
Transferable Development Rights (‘TDR’) and other statutory approvals for the 0.6 msf M3 Block B.
block has already been pre-leased to ANZ bank, and super structure work is underway.
launched new builds across the 0.7 msf L4 block and the 1.2 msf D1 and D2 redevelopment blocks are
progressing well, and we are witnessing early traction from global banking, cloud computing and other tech
At Embassy TechVillage, we are developing our 1.9 msf Block 8, of which 550k sf has already been pre-
leased to JP Morgan.
We continue to see surging demand for the balance.
We have always been optimistic
about the leasing dynamics of ETV in particular and Outer Ring Road (‘ORR’) micro-market in general.
that end, we are launching a 410k sf block, named Helenium, by unlocking the available FAR potential at
This new block is in addition to ETV’s development potential that we underwrote at the time of its
This project is expected to generate a highly accretive yield on cost of approximately 24%.
Also, in Q3, we received the occupancy certificate for Hudson and Ganges, the 0.9 msf office blocks in
Embassy TechZone, Pune; and our 0.7 msf Tower 1 at Embassy Oxygen, Noida is now nearing completion.
To summarize, our total development pipeline now stands at 6.6 msf.
Over 90% of this growth pipeline is
in Embassy Manyata and ETV in Bangalore.
Our reasons for concentrating development in our best parks
in Bangalore is simple.
Bangalore is the Indian city which leads global occupier demand and the
development economics in two of India’s best business parks which we own are too attractive to ignore.
₹30 billion total committed capex, of which ₹21 billion is pending as of Q3, these 6.6 msf projects are
expected to deliver ₹8 billion annual NOI upon stabilization.
These projects set us up for impressive 24%
yields on cost and they validate our strategy to accelerate our growth pipeline.
Next, an update on our hotels and total business ecosystem
Our four operating hotels continued their marked rebound in Q3 with 47% occupancy, a 15% QoQ ADR
growth and a YTD EBITDA of ₹704 million.
This performance is significantly better than what we initially
We have always believed that our hotel business complements our office offering perfectly, and
that it will continue to positively reflect in our leasing and rents over the long-term.
We expect this to be no
different as we develop the 518 key dual-branded Hilton hotels at ETV.
The ORR market where ETV is
located is underserved, with only 1,400 hotel rooms serving over 50 msf of office space.
Additionally, we continue to provide a ‘total-business-ecosystem’ experience to our occupiers by constantly
upgrading our properties with an eye on occupiers’ future needs.
Our 200k sf refurbishment of Block K at
Embassy Manyata is nearing completion and will enhance the leasable area of this block by 18%.
Additionally, we look forward to the upcoming launch of the NXT Retail Plaza at Embassy Manyata.
is an 85k sf F&B hub that will further boost employee experience as well as widen Embassy Manyata’s
competitive moat.
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Finally, an update on our acquisitions
We have made significant progress in our discussions with Embassy Sponsor and other stakeholders to
acquire the two properties in Bangalore and Chennai, which total 7.1 msf.
This includes the 5 msf Embassy Splendid TechZone business park in Pallavaram, Chennai and the 2.1
msf Embassy Business Hub property in Yelahanka, North Bangalore.
Both properties are strategically
located in fast-growing micro-markets and are anchored by renowned global occupiers in banking, financial
services, healthcare tech and IT services sectors.
Of the total 7.1 msf, 2.1 msf is completed or nearing
completion with 91% committed occupancy, thereby providing stable cash flow visibility.
And of the balance
5 msf, construction is underway for 3 msf, which aids further growth.
The potential acquisition will likely
account for less than 4% of REIT’s current GAV and remains subject to ongoing diligence, negotiations,
funding and requisite approvals.
We are also evaluating certain other acquisition opportunities from third parties.
We are focused on
prudently financing potential acquisitions through an optimal mix of debt-equity and are closely monitoring
the challenging financing markets for appropriate transaction windows.
We remain committed to ensure
that all our growth initiatives deliver value to our Unitholders, as demonstrated by our earlier ETV
acquisition which has outperformed our underwriting on numerous metrices.
Over to Abhishek now for our financial updates.
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Abhishek S Agrawal
Interim Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
Thanks, Ritwik.
Good evening everyone.
Let me take you through the key financial highlights for Q3.
We grew Net Operating Income by 13% YoY to ₹7,049 million, with operating margin of 81%;
We announced distributions of ₹5,033 million or ₹5.31 per unit (‘DPU’), with a 100% payout ratio; and
We continue to maintain our strong balance sheet with 27% low leverage and attractive 7.2% debt cost.
Let me take you through the details.
First, an update on our Q3 FY2023 income performance
Revenue from Operations grew by 17% YoY to ₹8,654 million.
This was mainly driven by our new
lease-up at higher spreads, contractual rent escalations, delivery of our 1.1 msf JP Morgan campus at
ETV and ramp-up of our hotel business.
This was partially offset by the impact of exits in our office
portfolio over the last year.
Net Operating Income (‘NOI’) and EBITDA grew by 13% and 14% YoY, respectively.
primarily driven by an increase in Revenue from Operations, partially offset by the increased hotel
operating expenses corresponding to our hotel business ramp-up.
Our overall NOI and EBITDA
margins stood at 81% and 80% respectively and continue to be best-in-class.
Our NOI margins
consistently remain around 86% for the commercial office segment, demonstrating its scale and
Net Distributable Cash Flows (‘NDCF’) stood at ₹5,045 million, up 2% YoY.
The YoY increase in our
NOI and EBITDA contributed positively to our NDCF, which was primarily offset by an increase in our
interest costs.
These incremental interest costs mainly related to the debt expense for our recently
delivered buildings, as well as the ₹46 billion coupon-bearing debt raised to refinance our earlier Zero-
Further, earlier today, our Board of Directors declared Q3 distributions of ₹5,033 million or ₹5.31 per
unit, representing a 100% payout ratio.
This brings our YTD distributions to ₹15.3 billion or ₹16.10 per
In the 15 quarters since our listing, we have now cumulatively distributed over ₹73 billion.
Moving to our balance sheet updates
We continue to maintain our fortress balance sheet with 27% low leverage, attractive 7.2% debt cost,
AAA/Stable credit rating and a ₹108 billion proforma debt headroom to finance growth.
Our debt strategy
remains focused on active capital management and interest cost optimization by locking-in fixed rates
given the inflationary environment.
Over the last 3 quarters, we have cumulatively refinanced or renegotiated over ₹42 billion debt at 120 bps
positive spreads.
As a result of this and our earlier refinancings, 65% of our ₹139 billion debt book carries
a fixed rate of 6.7% for an average maturity of 2 years.
Additionally, 27% of our debt carries a yearly reset
date and the interest rate is fixed for the next 7 months on an average.
Further, we are in advanced
discussions for refinancing an additional ₹16 billion floating rate debt and are targeting around 45 bps
positive spreads.
Given our access to various debt capital pools across mutual funds, insurers, FPIs, banks
and NBFCs, we are well-placed to refinance any upcoming debt maturities at best-in-class industry rates.
Further, in line with our ESG commitments, I am happy to report that our sustainable finance portfolio has
now grown to ₹39 billion, representing 28% of our total debt book, which is one of the best in the industry.
Lastly, an update on our FY2023 guidance
As a recap, during April 2022, we had provided our full year guidance with a mid-point NOI of ₹27,030
million and a mid-point DPU of ₹21.70 per unit, both within a range of +/-5%.
This guidance implies a YoY
increase of 9% in NOI and an in-line DPU, considering the mid-point guidance.
On a like-to-like basis, post
factoring the impact of our Nov’21 ZCB refinancing, this DPU guidance was also 9% higher YoY, reflecting
the efficient flow through of our NOI to distributions.
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Based on our YTD performance, I am pleased to reconfirm this guidance.
There has been a clear positive
rebound in office leasing as well as hotel business, both of which are currently tracking at or ahead of our
On the other hand, we expect interest costs to be higher than our initial assumptions, given the
rapid rise in rates over the last 3 quarters.
While rising interest rates have severely impacted global REIT
distributions and resulted in widespread guidance downgrades, we are happy to report that the positive
operational levers of our NOI have been able to largely mitigate the increase in interest costs.
Looking beyond FY2023, our new lease-up, contractual rent escalations, mark-to-market rent growth, and
scheduled deliveries will act as significant growth levers, thereby accelerating our growth to the benefit of
our Unitholders.
Over to Vikaash for his concluding remarks.
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Vikaash Khdloya
Thank you, Abhishek.
So, we continue to deliver consistently and are moving forward on our growth trajectory.
On the business front, Q3 was another strong quarter with 1 msf leasing and uptick in our same-store
occupancy to 88%.
With 4.4 msf leases already signed year-to-date and a promising 850k sf pipeline, we
are well-positioned to deliver on our annual guidance.
We continue to unlock value, as demonstrated by
the FAR enhancement projects across Embassy Manyata and ETV which will add 1.2 msf to our total
leasable area at highly accretive 22% yield.
And we remain focused on our 6.6 msf development growth
investments, estimated to add around ₹8 billion to our NOI upon stabilization.
On the capital markets front, amidst significant declines in global REIT stocks, Indian office REITs have
been resilient and infact significantly outshined their global peers.
This was largely driven by the continued
offshoring demand, impressive leasing spreads, development growth at attractive yields and low leverage
of Indian REITs.
Given wider understanding of the yield plus growth total return story combined with our
consistent 15 quarters of business delivery, Embassy REIT provides one of the best risk-to-reward profile.
Our Unitholder register continues to expand, with our retail base increasing around 18x since listing to over
We continue to focus on growing our NOI and distributions by developing and acquiring quality properties
and delivering long-term value to our Unitholders.
With this, let’s now move to Q&A please.
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Embassy REIT
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QUESTION & ANSWERS SESSION
(Note: The Q&A has been edited for clarity)
Moderator
Thank you very much.
We will now begin the question and answer session.
question is from the line of Kunal Tayal from Bank of America.
Kunal Tayal
My first question was around the leasing intensity for corporates.
There has been this
news flow around layoffs in the tech sector.
And I very well understand that the direct
impact on India or the plans for direct layoffs in India could be quite less and there's
the long-term offshoring trend as well.
But I was just wondering if this kind of news
flow might be enough for corporates to start thinking about pushing out new lease
plans for 6 to 12 months.
Is that something that you have seen or does it continue to
be unchanged versus three, six months back?
And then the second question is around the DESH policy.
Any clarity as to when that
could get done?
We've seen it get pushed twice over.
And I was just thinking about
the 97% occupancy ex of your SEZ spaces.
I'm wondering if policy clarity would
become a bottleneck to losing next year?
Vikaash Khdloya
Thank you, Kunal.
Let me take the first question on leasing.
There are a couple of
interesting things that's happening right now.
One, obviously, we are hearing the
overall macro commentary globally and a bit in India as well, on layoffs.
just like to state that employment or recession trends are cyclical, whereas the talent
and cost advantage that India has is structural.
So, that's a huge advantage we have.
What we have seen is that the layoffs in India are comparatively limited and
concentrated to a few pockets.
The elimination of roles is happening in fewer areas,
but companies continue to hire in other strategic areas, including R&D, and we are
seeing a lot of that.
In general, I would say that we have seen a couple of things.
One, demand continues
to be led by global captives.
We do think that on large deals, i.e., 800k sf to 1 msf
plus, we will see increased caution, and hence, decision-making may be slow over
the next two quarters.
But we continue to see robust deal pipeline and momentum.
you also look at our advanced leasing pipeline that we've indicated of 850k sf for Q4,
you'll see that on the smaller and mid-sized requirements, we continue to see the
momentum ongoing.
We do think that large deals will slow down for the next two
quarters, but then pick up in the second half of this calendar year.
And the reason is
simply that the global corporates right now are revaluating their strategy, and they are
firming up the decision on overall cost optimization measures given the macro
But once they arrive at a decision, the India cost advantage will stand in
stark contrast and more work will come to India.
We are firm believers of that.
have seen that in the past, we continue to believe in that.
We are well positioned to continue to focus on the smaller and mid-sized
requirements until we see the momentum on the large requirements.
even within the deals that we are seeing, we are seeing that the geographical mix is
So, besides just US banks and US captives, we are now seeing many
European and Australian banks setting up and expanding offices in India.
done a couple of such deals in this quarter and the previous quarters.
We are also seeing global captives from newer sectors setting up shops or
For example, apart from banks and financial services, we are now seeing
a lot of retailers, insurers and healthcare majors setting up their R&D centres, and a
lot of those examples as well.
The key is to be nimble and flexible in the solutions,
and we think that we'll continue to see the demand momentum, albeit for the larger
deals, we'll see that pick up only in the second half of this calendar year.
on the leasing trends.
Embassy REIT
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Coming to the DESH policy.
There are two things here.
One, the industry as a whole
is awaiting clarity on the DESH policy where the ask simply is to provide flexibility
especially on the strata floor-by-floor de-notification.
I think it's an industry-wide issue.
Kunal, my personal view is that we may see one or two quarters before there's a final
resolution to this.
Of course, there's been a lot of advocacy by the industry participants
But in the meantime, the way we have approached this, given it's an external
factor, is in a two- or three-pronged strategy.
One, we are full up on our occupancy, as we mentioned, 97%, excluding the SEZ
On all the new developments that we are doing, we have converted or
planned them as non-SEZ, including all the developments that are coming up in later
half of this year.
So, we deliver about 1.7 msf in the next two quarters, all of that is
planned as non-SEZ, so we can offer that to the market.
Two, for about 1.3 msf of the existing SEZ vacancy, we are exploring and have
already initiated conversion to non-SEZ by exploring moving some of the SEZ tenants
to other buildings and de-notifying the entire building.
So, 1.3 msf is in process under
And then finally, the advocacy efforts continue.
Given that we have more supply coming up in terms of new product and we are
focused on the precommitments on the 6.6 msf, we think that we will be reasonably
fine in terms of the leasing momentum for the full next year.
We will obviously lay out
a guidance next quarter.
But for the first two quarters, the applicability or
announcement of the DESH or SEZ policy may hamper or slow down the ability to
lease up our strata SEZ vacancy.
Just in terms of numbers.
Today, we have about 4.8 msf of total vacancy as of
Of that, 4 msf is SEZ, and as I mentioned, 1.3 msf of that we are
converting to non-SEZ, which we have the ability to do through the existing
And another 0.7 msf of non-SEZ vacancy.
So yes, it means that for the next two quarters, there will be a little bit of a challenge
given the conversion.
At the same time, given we have a massive under-construction
and about-to-be-delivered pipeline, I think, we will be reasonably better off compared
Can I just add one small piece to that, Kunal?
We can't understate the efforts of the
advocacy program here.
I think the ministry and the government has been lobbying
really hard to make sure that this happens.
This is a big year for India.
the day, we have differentiated ourselves and the markets have held up well relative
to where China is.
And yes, China is opening up, but India has done very well.
is a year that we host the infrastructure, the G20, there's a lot of focus from tenants
as well, who are clearly looking for non-SEZ spaces.
As we said, the demand for
that's off the charts.
And my sense is, thinking a couple of quarters down from now,
is when you'll probably see a sort of resolution start to kick in.
But they're all focused
on it, the government is aware of that, and it's something that I think we will be able
to get some clarity on.
Kunal Tayal
I understand that.
And it seems like new addition is very timely.
If I can push in
a follow-up here.
I wanted to understand these 1.3 msf of conversion.
Is that expected
to be operationally and financially smooth or what might that involve?
Vikaash Khdloya
Kunal, one of the recent 0.9 msf deliveries in Pune gets converted and we expect that
to happen anytime in the next month or so.
And then for one of the earlier buildings
in Manyata where we had a legacy IT services occupier vacate, we also relocated
few smaller tenants within this SEZ building to ensure that the whole building is vacant
and available for de-notification under the existing regulations.
We expect that to
happen in the next two or three months, and we are already in discussions to backfill
So, I think the 1.3 msf is very near term.
Embassy REIT
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Moderator
The next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC.
Puneet Gulati
Thank you so much for the opportunity and very happy to see you making extra efforts
here on converting into non-SEZ.
My question again is on Manyata.
So, the 0.36 msf
which will be expiring next year, is that also SEZ?
And is there any visibility on that
getting re-leased?
Vikaash Khdloya
For the next year, about 30% of the expiries in our overall portfolio is SEZ and 70%
We expect 0.9 msf of expiries next year, but in the business of this size, we
may always have an extra 100-200k sf.
We think a large majority of that will be
We don't think extra SEZ space will be added to the stock at end of March
I think it will be about 100-200k sf additional SEZ space, which will not be
renewed at the end of FY2024, as per estimates as of today.
Puneet Gulati
So, you're saying out of 0.3-0.4 msf, you will still be able to renew at least half of it?
Vikaash Khdloya
Yes, we think a little higher than that.
Puneet Gulati
The second question is on the NDCF for ETV.
That seems to be lower on a QoQ
basis from ₹208 crores to ₹172 crores.
Anything to highlight there?
Vikaash Khdloya
Abhishek, would you want to take that?
Abhishek Agrawal: So, if you look at quarter-on-quarter, the NDCF is lower largely because during the
current quarter, we have received lower security deposits as compared to the
previous quarter.
Just wanted to mention that while we appreciate a quarterly comparison, but in
general, we look at it more from a year-to-date or full year perspective because there
will always be some movements on security deposits and working capital quarter-to-
Puneet Gulati
Lastly, just on the hotel.
From industry commentary, we seem to be hearing that
occupancies are much higher, but all your hotels are still sub-50%.
read into that?
Vikaash Khdloya
Puneet, if I can speak to the Slide 34 of our earnings deck.
At Hilton GolfLinks, the
occupancy was low this quarter, one, for seasonal reasons; and two, given the holiday
season, the back to work was lower during the month of November, December.
we are seeing pre-pandemic levels, both on ADR and this quarter is looking pretty
On Four Seasons, if you may recollect, this was the hotel where we had pretty low
ADRs to start with.
So, we have re-strategized and have changed the entire team at
the hotel on the operating level, and we have raised the ADRs now to over ₹15,000.
So, you will see a nice uptick in EBITDA even though the occupancy still remains low
The target is to take it up to 50% in the next two quarters.
And Hilton Manyata is actually a good success story because within the first year of
operations, it is throwing a positive EBITDA for a hotel of this scale, 619 keys.
of today, the occupancy is 50%.
While we have not shared the occupancy numbers
between Hilton Garden Inn and Hilton in our materials, Hilton Garden Inn is doing
There, the objective is to hike the ADRs.
But Hilton, the larger hotel which
was launched later and at a more premium offering, the occupancy level is at about
40%, and we are trying to move the occupancy levels higher there.
segment which depends on business travel from senior executives.
And that's where
in November, December, we saw some amount of slowdown.
Overall, I would say we are well on track.
And in fact, we expect the EBITDA on our
hotels to be more than double than our underwriting.
So, I think our hotel business is
on a good trajectory.
We will continue to see quarter-on-quarter improvement.
slowed a little bit for two reasons, one, the holiday season; two, some of the festive
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season that's happening.
And most of the Bangalore hotels and our hotels in
particular are more positioned to corporate travel than leisure travel.
Moderator
The next question is from the line of Mohit Agarwal from IIFL.
Mohit Agarwal
My first question is on the new supply.
So, you mentioned that the 0.9 msf in Pune
that you are now getting converted into non-SEZ.
So, what is the kind of demand that
you are seeing there?
Considering in earlier calls, you have mentioned that Pune has
been slow and you have mentioned today that you are seeing some recovery.
you could give some colour on that?
And also on the 1.7 msf that is going to come up
in the next 6 months between M3 and Oxygen?
Vikaash Khdloya
So, on Pune ETZ, where we have delivered the 0.9 msf, we are converting to
non-SEZ and expect it to go through in the next 1 or 2 months.
So far, what we have
seen is that Pune as a market is recovering, but the traction is more on the east side
through the banks and financial services client base.
For West Pune, demand still
While we have done some deals, but mainly it is awaiting clarity on
the DESH bill, although we have seen some early signs of pick-up.
What we have done in Pune is we have done 2 or 3 leases of about 150k sf in the
Our pipeline currently is about 400k sf for Pune, 120k sf of that is in
advanced discussion and that's included in our 850k sf overall leasing pipeline for Q4
that we indicated.
And most of the enquiries are for non-SEZ.
Of the entire vacancy that we have in Pune, half of it is SEZ.
That has been a
marketing challenge.
We have seen existing occupiers expanding, we have seen
some of the European captives in automobile and renewals.
We are speaking to
them, and that's included in the pipeline.
We are also seeing some new tech players
across healthcare looking at space.
And maybe 2 or 3 quarters down the lane, while
it is including the 400k sf pipeline, we have some large Fortune 500 American
corporates who are looking to set up centers in Pune.
I would say that Pune is expected to be slow for the next 2 quarters, awaiting both
clarity on DESH bill and on the SEZ side.
And the back to office on Pune has been
slower than what we have seen overall in our portfolio as well as in Bangalore and
ETV especially.
So, I think we'll have to just be patient on Pune.
The good thing about our portfolio, with the scale that we are operating is, we can
play the patient game in markets where there is muted demand.
We think it will come
But as of now, next 1 or 2 quarters, we expect the traction to be at similar levels
with what we have seen.
Our entire strategy of building is building to where we foresee demand in the future.
Given that it takes 3 years from putting a shovel in the ground to actually getting a
building up and running, I think we never want to be in a situation where we are caught
offside, and particularly in these kinds of volatile markets where interest rates have
been rising or the cost of construction has been swirling around a bit.
We just want to make sure that we have the two buildings ready and for us to put that
into a market where there is obviously demand from automotive, from renewables,
from people looking to do EV.
Over time, we feel pretty good about the project and
And, Mohit, if I can just add on the 1 msf in Manyata that we deliver next quarter,
there, we are seeing pretty robust pipeline.
So, we have about 400k sf of advanced
discussions, which is included in our 850k sf pipeline number.
And just to give you a
flavour of the occupiers we are talking to, we are talking to an IT infra services
occupier and we are talking to a global engineering and consulting occupier there.
We are looking to convert 400k sf by the time the building is delivered next quarter,
in line with our usual target of having 50% of the building pre-committed by the time
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it is delivered.
And on Oxygen, which is the 0.7 msf tower in Noida.
Again, Noida, given that most
of the buildings are SEZ, this is also an SEZ building and is in the process of being
The delivery comes up sometime in June or July of 2023.
to one Fortune 500 big tech company, and we will see how it goes.
intermediate discussions.
But I would reiterate that Bangalore continues to see a lot
of strong traction.
Pune, Noida, we think it will take a little bit more time to lease up.
Mohit Agarwal
And how much time does it take to de-notify from the time you start the process?
Vikaash Khdloya
Usually, it takes about three months.
But in certain states like Noida, it is the first time
that it is being done in the state itself.
So, that takes a little bit more time for the
regulators to just figure out the processes internally.
But typically, in Bangalore, we
see it happening in 3 months.
Mohit Agarwal
And my second question is on the rental growth.
So, in an inflationary environment,
one would want to believe that you would be able to push higher rentals to account
for the overall inflation and higher interest rates.
So, I wanted to get your thoughts,
have we been able to do that?
Or are the market forces not allowing that?
Vikaash Khdloya
So Mohit, the short answer to that is, yes, we are seeing rental growth.
Knight Frank office report earlier this month had mentioned that Bangalore has seen
a year-on-year increase of 11% in rents for the market overall.
We continue to lease
at a premium to the rent that CBRE expects for our properties.
This quarter, for our
overall leasing, we have leased at 5% premium to market rents.
And obviously, the
spreads are much higher if you take into account the renewals and in-place rents.
So, you are absolutely right, in an inflationary environment and especially with interest
costs rising, we will see the replacement values of the properties go up, which would
mean two things.
One, it will mean that supply will decline, and we have already seen
that last year, as announced supply which the IPCs expected to be delivered versus
what was actually delivered was lower.
We continue to believe that the supply will be
And two, we will also see rental growth.
We are already seeing that in
Many of our discussions in Bangalore are not centred around rent, it's just
centred around solutions, timing and flexibility to the occupiers and quality and
And we think over time, that will flow through to Noida, Pune as well.
yes, rental inflation is likely.
We have already seen that in Bangalore, and we are
trying to see how best we can convert that into NOI growth in our portfolio.
If you see our in-place rent versus market rent and the gap, over the last 4 to 6
quarters, we have narrowed that gap considerably.
That's obviously because of the
renewals happening at mark-to-market at higher spreads.
Plus, as we see better
back-to-work ramp-up, which we have already seen a good uptick this quarter, we
will also start seeing even healthier rental growth, not just in Bangalore, but in other
cities over the next 2 or 3 quarters.
And that will also mean that the portfolio will start
catching up to those newer rents as leases expire or come up for renewal or new
leases come in.
So yes, rental inflation is something we are seeing, and we believe it
will be demonstrated in the leasing as we move forward.
Moderator
The next question is from the line of Kunal Lakhan from CLSA.
Kunal Lakhan
Vikaash, you mentioned that your physical attendance has been ramping up and you
were at 46% last week.
Just wanted to understand, in your discussion with your
occupiers, say, at what level of physical attendance do you think occupiers will be
compelled to look at new office options?
Vikaash Khdloya
We have a slide in the deck, which I can point to, but let me give a flavour
of what's happening in the portfolio.
It's really interesting that the trends that we are
seeing are not similar for all the cities, for all the kind of occupiers as well as for all
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If you see Slide 30, let me walk you through that and what we believe
would be a trigger point.
So overall, we saw that our physical attendance was 46% for our properties earlier
this month in January.
Mumbai is already at pre-pandemic levels of 75%.
has shown a nice uptick, and it is now at around 45%.
In fact, ETV is already at 60%,
and that is why we see a lot of precommitment activity and pipeline at ETV.
again, if you recollect, has a very high proportion of global captives.
In Pune and Noida, back-to-work has been slow.
It is around 40% or slightly lower.
And that is simply because the IT services back-to-work has been slower overall
compared to the captives and compared to the big tech.
We believe that at around
50-55%, occupiers will be compelled to just look at their space strategies, and to firm
up with decisions, both on medium-term, as well as on long-term.
seeing that happening for banks, healthcare and retail captives.
We think that will also
translate and trickle down to the big tech and the product tech companies that we
And I think the IT services companies will be the last to come in.
to-work is slower in IT services, although we have seen very positive commentary by
the CEOs who are trying to push and nudge people back to work.
So, I think at 50-55%, we'll see a trigger.
We are already seeing that in certain
If you see, we have early renewed with a healthy uptick, although we had
contracted for a much later timeline, with a global retail captive and leased-up
additional space to them in Manyata.
Also, banks continue to feature in our pipeline.
And a 50%-55% overall physical attendance will require the companies to look at their
plans because I think it will never be 100%.
It was never 100% pre-pandemic.
somewhere around 70-75% is what is being expected.
And at 50-55% level, they will
need to start factoring in more space.
We have not seen conversations around desk sharing, that's the conversation that's
There will be flexibility and so there will be a certain amount of work
But majority of the time, the business leaders want people to come back
to office, and there's a lot of requirement of space to be re-modelled.
That discussion
is happening, both on creating more social spaces and a larger per person seat
Kunal Lakhan
Going by the traction that you are seeing, say, about 1 or 2 quarters, we
should be there?
Vikaash Khdloya
We think so too as well, Kunal.
And that's why we said the second half of this
year, we believe that we will see traction on the larger leases.
And by that time, global
corporates will also firm up their long-term plans.
Because if they come to India, they
have to think of a 5 or 10-year commitment, if they are offshoring an R&D process or
any other centre.
And I think by that time, they will also be able to get internal
approvals on the capex requirements to set up or offshore more to India.
Kunal Lakhan
My second question was on the financials.
So, on a 9-month basis YTD, we have
seen a 12% growth in the NOI.
But on NDCF basis, we've seen a decline, and
understand it is so because of the conversion of the zero-coupon bond and so on and
But going into next year, can we expect the NOI growth to also reflect into
Or there could be a disconnect there?
Vikaash Khdloya
Kunal, while I will request my colleague Abhishek to answer, but we will refrain from
commenting on the next year.
In general, given the leasing momentum for next year,
we are targeting to deliver double-digit NOI growth, and there are a couple of factors
which will determine the DPU trajectory – interest rates and DESH will be 2 of them.
But certainly, we will give more flavour in the coming quarter when we lay out our
annual guidance.
Abhishek, do you want to speak through what you are seeing for
FY2023 this year?
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Abhishek Agrawal: Yes.
So, Kunal, on a YTD basis for this current year, it is the zero-coupon refinancing
and also the interest cost on the loan for the deliveries that we have done during this
year, both have come and hit the NDCF this year.
Going forward, you will see all the
leasing that has happened during the current year will definitely go to the NOI and will
flow through because of our efficient flow through from NOI to NDCF.
interest rates have risen, and we will have to refi certain loans.
So, all of those factors
will also play into it, and we will give a guidance the way we are giving every year.
Kunal, if you just lay out the picture right now, for the longest time, we have actually
hit guidance in the past.
We are very cautious about this.
You have to understand
that our distribution flow through, unfortunately, is also dependent on absolute interest
rate environment, which isn't really conducive to financing.
If you think about global
REITs, people who were financing at 2-3% historically, they have obviously moved
into a volatile financing scenario, where now, effectively, they go from 2% to 4%,
that's sort of doubling their interest cost and their cost of capital.
We moved from, call
it, 7% to somewhere in the 8%, and we are still the best credit in the industry.
Overall, what we try is to make sure that we don't overpromise something on a
distribution basis that then is very hard for us to sit there and manage.
the day, we build growth through the scale that we have in the portfolio, and we try
and buy growth from outside, and then to the extent we can manage the drop downs
efficiently, we do that.
And in this kind of an environment, I think the biggest risk which we have already kind
of managed is the interest rate risk.
It is baked into our stock.
It is baked into our
ability to get the financing that we do and we are getting some very, very attractive
offers as well.
So, with that in mind, we just don't want to overstep and tell you that
we are going to be able to deliver some kind of growth, which clearly, in a volatile
environment, would be a bit imprudent.
Vikaash Khdloya
If I can just conclude that.
We, as management, are focused on NOI growth because
NOI growth in the long term, will deliver value and will flow through into the NDCF or
our distributions.
For example, if you are seeing new buildings being built and
delivered, of course till the time the building gets stabilized, let's say 1 year, the
interest costs will be a drag to the NDCF.
But if you look at it from a three-year horizon,
from a unitholder perspective, what we need to be doing is keep delivering newer
buildings and start trying to stabilize them as soon as possible.
So, NOI growth is our focus.
Given that 100% of our debt is coupon bearing, there
will be efficient flow through as and when the buildings start getting stabilized and the
rents start flowing in.
And given the levers that we have both on mark-to-market,
lease-up, which we have already seen a rebound on the same-store basis, as well as
escalations on the new deliveries and their revenues, we think we are well placed to
target a double-digit NOI growth in this coming year.
Moderator
The next question is from the line of Karan Khanna from Ambit Capital.
Karan Khanna
Just a couple of clarifications.
So, on the mark-to-market side, while Bangalore
opportunity remains strong.
Mumbai and Pune have seen a downward mark-to-
market of the expiries in FY2024 to FY2026.
So, can you help elaborate this further,
as in case of FIFC, which is in BKC, we are seeing new leasing being done in excess
of ₹300 per square feet, while your mark-to-market report is only ₹275?
Vikaash Khdloya
Karan, the market rent assessment is a third-party assessment of CBRE and they
have been kind of more conservative on Pune given that Pune market has been
Some of the leases that come up for expiry and renewal next year in Pune
as well as in Mumbai, in Mumbai, it is very typical, but in Pune as well, given the
contracted escalations that these are 8-10-12 year leases, there may be a slight
mark-to-market downward.
But I think that is not material, it is a judgment thing,
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whether it is a ₹48-50-52 market in Pune.
So, we are not overly worried about that.
In FIFC, of course, we are trying to see if we can push the rents higher.
contributes a small portion, and the fact that this building has a co-owner, I think the
valuers have been conservative.
But we have consistently tried to lease at about ₹285
to ₹290 per square feet or higher.
Karan Khanna
And secondly, on your hotel portfolio, while we have seen the physical occupancy
increasing, the hotel occupancies have stagnated or perhaps were declining in the
Just wanted to understand what office or park level of physical
occupancy do you see the hotels starting to benefit as well?
Vikaash Khdloya
There are a couple of things here.
While the hotel occupancy in Q3 has declined, let
me break this down into 2 or 3 pieces as I mentioned it earlier during the call.
GolfLinks' hotel occupancy was obviously linked to two factors; one, the GolfLinks'
back to work in November, December given the holiday season and given all our
hotels cater to corporate clients, there is very minimal leisure travel involved.
all corporate and, hence, Q3 generally has been a slower quarter comparatively, still
much better than the pandemic period.
GolfLinks has been slightly impacted, but at
about 40-50% levels of back-to-work, we think the hotel can reach pre-pandemic
occupancy levels of 70-72%.
Coming to Four Seasons.
As I said, here, we are focused on repositioning the hotel,
given that it contributes negligibly to our NOI, and we have raised the ADR
substantially from earlier so what we are adhering to the standard of what a Four
Seasons hotel should be charging.
So, that's second.
And third, on Manyata Hilton, given that it is a large hotel and is still stabilizing, and I
mentioned the larger Hilton format was launched later and the senior level business
travel is still picking up, we saw occupancy levels of 49%, which I think, for a 619-key
hotel, within the first year of its launch, is still fantastic.
So overall, I would say, hotels will see a consistent overall growth trajectory.
example, if I were to give you a forward-looking flavour, there are citywide events
such as G20, Aero Show, Petro Conference, which are expected to generate
additional demand, especially in Embassy Manyata Hilton in Q4.
So, we think hotels
will continue to stabilize and continue to deliver incremental NOI quarter-on-quarter.
We are well placed for that.
Karan Khanna
And lastly, if you could give us some ballpark understanding in terms of having seen
the entire commercial real-estate space over the last couple of decades, by when do
you expect the occupancies to perhaps touch your pre-COVID levels of 95%?
you think that the same is achievable even without the SEZ benefits?
Vikaash Khdloya
That's a very interesting question, Karan.
Let me put it this way.
By the end of this
year, we are looking to go back to the early to mid-90s and we have a path towards
If you see the expiry profile next year of 0.9 msf and even factoring for additional
vacancies or expiries that usually come up as a normal part of business, we expect
a large proportion of next year's expiries to be renewed.
Plus, we have seen uptick
and positive momentum in net leasing given the large occupier who had legacy leases
and was vacating on a staggered basis, that has ended in September.
have a path to occupancy levels of early 90s in the next 2 to 3 quarters on a same-
Again, I would like to impress what I mentioned earlier that we would like to
emphasize and focus on NOI growth, simply because we think leasing, let's say, at a
Manyata or ETV and achieving premium rents at a faster velocity, contributes higher
to NOI growth than, let's say, at a Pune or a Noida.
It is not to say that the efforts are
not being made at Pune or Noida.
So, NOI growth is purely what we would like to
guide you and to request you to focus on.
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Occupancy levels can be misleading because we would not do deals just for the
optics purposes.
We are very selective on our occupier profile who will continue to
As I mentioned earlier, we have a path towards early to mid-90s in the next 3
to 4 quarters on a same-store basis.
We have already seen an uptick.
If you see our guidance on the leasing pipeline of 850k sf, roughly half of that is fresh
leasing and half of that is under-construction pipeline.
And if you see our exit profile
for Q4, it is negligible.
So, if you just do the math, we will be close to 90% on a same-
store basis by next quarter itself.
Obviously, it all depends on if we can execute and
get the leases signed.
And on the NOI trend, as I mentioned already earlier, we are
targeting a healthy double-digit NOI growth next year, and that is our core focus.
Moderator
The next question is from the line of Ravi Agarwal from Mirae Asset Investment
My question is largely a clarification.
On the CF loan taken by the Embassy Property
Developments and there was a delay in the servicing of the repayment, citing some
regulatory issues.
So, I would just like to have an update on the status of that and
would like to also confirm if there any liquidity issues or delays which have been still
Vikaash Khdloya
Ravi, thank you for the question.
Let me take this and Ritwik or Abhishek, please feel
free to add in.
So, a couple of things.
One, it's more appropriate for this question to
be directed to the Embassy Sponsor.
As a principle, we don't want to comment on
market speculation and news, especially around our Sponsors.
As we have highlighted in our Q3 results and as Abhishek spoke, our operational and
financial position remains strong and we are on track to deliver on our guidance and
we have AAA/Stable rating, both from CRISIL and CARE on our balance sheet.
have very conservative leverage, best-in-class interest rates and negligible debt
maturities this fiscal.
We have access to a wide investor debt pool across mutual
funds, insurers, FPIs, banks, NBFCs and corporate treasuries.
And we do not see
any impact on the REIT itself and we do not want to comment on market speculation.
Arun Kumar
Hearty congratulations on the leasing traction.
One, over the last
three years, the NOI margin has been, on an average, around 85%.
financial year, over the last three quarters, it is somewhere between 81% to 82%.
And as it has been explained in the presentation, it is due to the product mix between
the commercial office space and the hotels.
So, is the 81% to 82% the new range or
is there any scope for improvement in the NOI margins?
Vikaash Khdloya
Thank you, Arun.
And why don't I ask my colleague, Abhishek, to take this question?
Abhishek Agrawal: Thank you for the question.
Actually, you have put it rightly.
Earlier, the NOI margin
was around 85-86%.
Now, the NOI margin has gone down to 81%.
This is because
of the product mix and what has happened is during the current quarter and the just
previous quarter, the revenue from office has not increased so much, but the revenue
from hotel business has increased a lot.
So, the product mix has changed.
said that, we have done so many leasing during the current 9 months, the revenue
from that will start flowing in from the next quarter or the quarter next.
So, the mix can
again go back to almost a similar range.
So, you can expect anything between 81%
to 85% to come back.
There is a little bit more flavour on the segment mix and segment-wise margins in
Page 13 of our supplemental data book.
But the way we look at it is, we will have
more hotels come up.
And as hotel revenues increase, with ETV hotel and all coming
up, the overall consolidated ratio of NOI margin will be misleading.
have segregated for office and other segment.
Office, we consistently have been at
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around 86%, if you see the year-on-year and the quarter-on-quarter trend in that Slide
13 of the supplemental data book.
So, you will have to just factor for the segment mix
and see the segregated ratios.
Office remains best-in-class.
Hotel margins, obviously,
the nature of the business is different than office.
Arun Kumar
And my second question, with the 6.6 msf that we are planning to add and the ROFO
assets, do we need additional equity to fund them?
And we have also approved
raising of debt by another ₹5,000 crores.
So, what is the level of leverage that you
would be comfortable with?
And does AAA rating warrant you to maintain some
specific level of leverage?
Firstly, we have got to break down the square footage.
So, you have got 6.6 msf of
development that is in-house, that we typically fund through debt – bonds at the REIT
level, term loans, LRD at the SPV level.
So, for that we do not think about any other
source of financing beyond what we have laid out in our supplemental deck, and we
are very comfortable with that.
Now, an acquisition is something that is a little different.
That is obviously a function
of the financial markets, where it could be debt, a mix of debt, mix of equity depending
on the market conditions.
Take ETV, for example.
When we did Embassy TechVillage
acquisition, we did a placement for that.
Market conditions obviously played a big role
in the way we looked to finance that transaction.
So again, typically, for the in-house
construction and development, we wouldn't be looking to go out there and raise equity
in these kinds of markets.
Vikaash Khdloya
Arun, just to add to what Ritwik said, the ₹5,100 crores that you referred to, in terms
of approval for debt raise, that's just a provision.
It is not the intent that we go ahead
and raise it right now.
We do not have a use of proceeds.
We have never raised that
unless we have a clear sight of where we are using it for.
That is an enabling
resolution because there are maturities that are coming up.
Let me break down the thought process of ₹5,100 crores. ₹1,000 crores of that, today,
as we speak, we have refinanced some of the existing loans close to ₹950 crores at
So, we have used ₹1,000 crores of that limit to refinance existing debt,
again, to manage and optimize on interest cost, that's one.
The balance ₹4,100 crores
is towards an enabling resolution as we have, in the second half starting October and
February as we have included in the deck, we have expiries coming off existing
And we have the data in our presentation on Slide 37.
So, it's an enabling resolution to ensure that we have flexibility to refi the existing
So, there's no intent to borrow additionally.
The only borrowing, as Ritwik
mentioned, we will do is for new construction and if and when we go ahead with an
Again, if we were to do the entire 6.6 msf development, even assuming
that the value of the building does not increase, which means the denominator for the
leverage ratio does not increase, we will still not reach the 30% leverage.
management, are very comfortable with debt levels of around 30% on net debt to
On the acquisition front, as Ritwik indicated, the size of the acquisition is expected to
be less than 4% of the GAV of the company.
So, the acquisition is strategic as we are
looking at it and if we were to negotiate and announce, but it is less than ₹2,000
It will typically be funded by a mix of debt and equity.
Overall, I would say that
we are not looking at reaching the 30% figure on the leverage that we as management
are comfortable.
However, in the medium term, if there is a transformative acquisition
like an ETV, we are comfortable at around 35% overall.
We would not like to breach
35% in the next 3 to 5 years.
Arun Kumar
And to your last point, on the AAA rating, what is required?
Vikaash Khdloya
Yes, they are typical covenants.
And being able to access a ₹1,000 crores debt at
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sub-8% in today's market just speaks to how we have managed and maintained the
Yes, there are couple of covenants typical to AAA rating, including
EBITDA coverage.
And we are very comfortable with those leverage ratios, including
for factoring for any potential organic or inorganic growth.
We always factor what it
means to our debt covenants when we undertake additional growth.
Arun Kumar
One final question.
We are targeting a double-digit NOI growth next year.
the same double-digit target into DPU as well?
Vikaash Khdloya
So, Arun, again, we didn't want to give a guidance or an indication for next year.
we were alluding to is that given the levers that we have, we should be back to the
We have always stated that we would like to target a mid-teens NOI
growth as a business given the four levers that we have of mark-to-market, lease-up,
escalations and new delivery.
We would not want to layout our guidance on NOI and
We will come out with the guidance next quarter.
But again, I would want to impress and request everybody on the call that our focus
is on NOI growth, simply because NOI growth will eventually translate and flow
through into distributions.
The DESH bill as well as the rising interest rates will have
a bearing on the distributions.
But we are looking at growth, and we think that if we
can deliver the growth at those 24% yield on the construction, having a fantastic
spread given our cost of financing is at around 8% handle, and yields that we are
doing on new development is 24%, we think we will be able to deliver DPU growth in
the medium term if we can focus on NOI and grow that.
So I will leave it at that.
yes, our focus is to enhance the overall value.
We are not overly focused on
Distributions will come in and it will flow through.
We are also not
focused on occupancy.
We are focused on NOI growth.
Moderator
Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we will take one last question, which is
from the line of Samar Sarda from Axis Capital.
Samar Sarda
I had a follow-up question with respect to SEZs and the de-notification.
seen a lot of landlords who de-notified vacant lands and in a couple of instances also
under-construction buildings.
If you could help us, if there is any precedent of the
number of months or how much time does it take for any other buildings, which are
ready, occupied, and then vacant, which have been de-notified in the past?
Vikaash Khdloya
Samar, thank you for the question.
Typically, assuming that the building complies with
the requirements of de-notification, which specifically mean that the entire building
needs to be vacant, and also that the support infrastructure needs to be segregated,
it typically takes around three months in states which have done it previously.
Noida, we have experienced that it is taking longer, but it is very typical in Bangalore
to get it de-notified within three months of application.
Abhishek, would you want to
Abhishek Agrawal: Yes, there are other conditions also like contiguity etc., all of those conditions need
to be met for these timelines to be basically adhered to.
Samar Sarda
But do we have precedents of that happening in Karnataka?
Vikaash Khdloya
We have done de-notifications, not post acquisition, but pre-acquisition, it has
happened at ETV a couple of times and similarly at Manyata as well.
notification of a full building block is a procedural routine business as usual, we would
The challenge we are facing today, and the first question by Kunal on the DESH
policy, is what do we do of buildings which are half vacant and half occupied in SEZ.
The law today does not provide for de-notification of strata or floor-by-floor, and that's
So, if the entire building is vacant, and we comply with other conditions
of contiguity and infrastructure segregation from non-SEZ, it is pretty procedural,
three months is a fair timeline, and it has been done in the past.
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Samar Sarda
Which we believe they're trying to change in the DESH bill with respect to the floors?
Vikaash Khdloya
Absolutely, you're right.
The request from the industry as a whole is that the
government allows floor-by-floor and also does it in a single window clearance on a
self-declaration basis, so that they can just speed up the conversion process and the
verification happens post facto.
So, even that three months, we can bring it down to
So, that is the request from the industry.
Just to give you a context of SEZ space.
In India, today we have about 180 msf of
SEZ space, of which around 30 msf is vacant, and I am talking about Grade A spaces.
Roughly, this is based on some published reports.
And that is why this is a critical
component of regulation that needs to be addressed.
And that is why the industry has
been in advocacy with the government.
Samar Sarda
And just a small follow-up on this, again, a little more operational.
The DESH bill might
come in over the next three months or over the next six months, it is a government-
driven procedure.
We have seen some other landlord peers who have been leasing
space in their SEZs because most of the SEZs are campus-style developments and
for expandability options etc.
Obviously, it's not 100 out of 100, activity might probably
be 20-25 out of 100.
Are you guys also still evaluating options where tenants do come
Or that's a complete loner until and unless the DESH bill clears?
Vikaash Khdloya
Samar, that's a good question.
Let me break it to two things.
One, what we have done
and what is happening in the portfolio is where India is headed.
In general, it would
be fair to say that given the tax holiday has been phased out in SEZ, the demand has
moved disproportionately to non-SEZ.
That also reflects the fact that Indian occupiers
and office demand has moved up the value chain, because the larger occupiers are
in India not to save on rent cost, they are in India to access talent at scale.
So, we have seen global captives, they are just not bothered about the tax incentives.
They want non-SEZ spaces because they want flexibility of operations and flexibility
to grow their business.
In SEZ, there are a bunch of conditions that need to be
So, India office in general, has moved towards that, which is a great
sign because it shows that the market is maturing and the propensity to pay higher
rents by the occupiers has increased.
We are moving more and more towards global
captives and big tech, whereas, in the past, IT services would have been a large
component of the new demand.
So, that's one.
So directionally, India has moved
For the demand that we see in the market and the pipeline, it is safe to say
over 90% of that would be non-SEZ enquiries and demand today.
Having said that, we do see SEZ demand.
For example, year-to-date, we have done
2 msf of SEZ leasing, both pre-leases where we did a large pre-lease with a banking
occupier in Manyata that was SEZ, and a large SEZ renewal.
So, we are seeing SEZ
renewals and new leasing.
Even in Q3 alone, we did about 230k sf of SEZ leasing.
These are mostly existing occupiers who are expanding with their existing SEZ
benefits going on, but we have seen any new global captive or large, big tech taking
up space or growing, it's all non-SEZ.
So yes, we are being opportunistic where we
can do SEZ leasing.
We have done that in Q3 as well as year-to-date, 2 msf, including
precommitments on new buildings.
But the more usual enquiries we get is of non-
Moderator
I will now hand it over to Mr.
Abhishek Agarwal for closing comments.
Abhishek Agarwal: Thank you so much for joining us on today's call and for your great questions.
of the data points covered today can be found on our website and in the published
materials, and we are always happy to engage further if any additional clarifications
Thank you very much.
On behalf of Embassy Office Parks REIT, that concludes this
Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.